NITI will not compute poverty numbers: Vivek Debroy

Bibek Debroy, Member, NITI Aayog

NITI Aayog member Bibek Debroy, in a conversation with P Vaidyanathan Iyer says that while the view on poverty numbers will be taken by a taskforce, his personal take is that people of the working age are not voluntarily poor, but only because they do not have access to certain inputs. Excerpts:

Since the first PM-chaired meeting, what are the issues NITI is currently engaged in?

The Cabinet resolution is quite broad in its coverage. So, one needs to pin it down a little bit, prioritise things to be done immediately. In that prioritisation, there are deliberately fewer members than earlier. There is a bit of vacuum on who will work here. We have decided to get people from outside — interns and young professionals and at senior levels consultants and advisors. So, we are putting together the human resources part now. We don’t want people to come in only on governmental terms. In parallel, we are also looking at the work area, including the work allocation among members and the focus areas for NITI. We are working on a website that is interactive, so that it become a platform for others to give their views and inputs.

If not planning, what will NITI do?

There is lot of abhorrence for the word ‘planning’. There are questions on the significance of Five Year plans particularly when resources are generated by the private sector. Historically, the Planning Commission would have the perspective planning division. It did the best work in 1950s and 1960s. There is no disjunct on that aspect even today. For instance, NITI will define the indicators — economic, social or human development, business or sustainable development, that will take India to where we wants it to be by, say 2025.We need to do this in a disaggregated fashion, and begin upwards from the block or village level. Today, data limitations do not permit you to do that. So, we will probably start doing it district wise.

So, essentially you will review the effectiveness of expenditure starting at district levels?

In getting there, there is a role for public expenditure. Central schemes, state-level schemes, CSS. Our job is to examine existing schemes; we are much more activist in this, much more involved in gauging these schemes if they lead to actual improvement in outcomes. We will further suggest which ones are unnecessary, which ones require tweaking, etc.

But going down to the district level may not be easy…

Not in the next one year. Probably, we will start with states. Then go to district level. The 14th Finance Commission recommendations have substantially increased devolution to states. It has also explicitly stated that Plan, non-Plan expenditure distinction goes. So, the historical idea of money being routed through Planning Commission doesn’t exist any more. We neither have the carrot or the stick while evaluation of schemes.

Is NITI Aayog going to look at poverty numbers afresh?

We don’t want to compute poverty numbers. There is a lot of controversy about its definition. Data is there, let others compute it.

Moreover, the NSS is a survey, not even a census. Poverty will be determined by states in terms of BPL (below poverty level) families. But we will have a task force on poverty. The view on poverty will be that of this collective body. As NITI, we don’t have a view yet on the best approach. My personal view is unless someone is old, disabled, woman-headed household, exceptions. People who are in the working age group, nobody is voluntarily poor. They are poor because they do not have access to inputs: could be roads, technology, schools, electricity, skills, health, financial products, marketing. You solve that, you solve the poverty problem. This is a generalised solution. If I want to solve the poverty problem, I need to provide for the missing inputs. But this is my personal take. Similarly, there will be a task force on agriculture too.

Source:: Indian Express